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Referendum 1 for Utah? What are the REAL facts?
Referendum 1 in Utah is a controversial ballot item, but I encourage you to Vote for 1. What I’ve found is that most arguments opposing Referendum 1 are emotional, baseless, and make very little to no sense at all.
Voucher Opponents are Not Telling the Whole Truth!
KSL has done an excellent job of setting the opponents’ misleading ads straight. So if KSL is correct Utah’s teacher of the year lies on camera in one of the ads.
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Political wisdom of the Clinton campaign
about 5 years ago - 2 comments
Looking at the media relations strategy of the Clinton campaign, they never cease to amaze with their skill. Here’s the headline: Clinton chairman: Obama would be good running mate a) I think they really mean it. b) It positions Hillary Clinton as the President, the winner and the “real” nominee for the Democratic party. c)
Milton Friedman on Greed
about 5 years ago - No comments
In the realm of politics, this is quite an interesting video to watch. Milton Friedman was an American Nobel Laureate economist who died in 2006. Friedman was a very bright man.
Do you believe the bible? Republican responses.
about 5 years ago - No comments
I you were in the middle of a presidential debate and someone asked you if you believe every word of the bible, what would you say? Here’s what Rudy, Mitt and Mike had to say, and frankly, I think Mike Huckabee did the best job with this question when put on the spot. It sounds
The truth shows its face on Utah Vouchers
about 5 years ago - 14 comments
$9.3 million was approved by the Utah legislature for use on vouchers until it went to referendum and was voted down. So what’s going to happen to the money? It’s not going to public education because that’s not where the money came from. But again, voucher opponents and many teachers led a lot of people
Utah voucher sign theft caught on video
about 5 years ago - 3 comments
Are you kidding me? What the guy in the video doesn’t realize is that the property owner tied fish line to the sign, which was connected to his house and a ringing bell.
Myth 3: Public education money belongs to public schools
about 5 years ago - 1 comment
This is a continuation of the Myths from the Opposition series. Utah’s Referendum 1: 5 articles you don’t want to miss reading Referendum 1 for Utah? What are the REAL facts? Utah Vouchers: Myths from the opposition Myth No. 2: Vouchers will divert money from schools Myth No. 3: Public Education Money Belongs to Public
Paul Tonks: Draper City’s best choice for city council
about 5 years ago - 2 comments
Even if you don’t live in Draper, Utah to be able to vote for Paul Tonks for city council that’s okay. I still get to voice my opinion and hope that others in Draper will read this and do the same. Why I’m Voting for Paul Tonks for Draper City Council 1 – He’s the
Myth No. 2: Vouchers will divert money from schools
about 5 years ago - No comments
If you’ve been following the “Myths from the Opposition Series,” where I expose the untruths that opponents of the Utah Voucher program are spreading in Utah I’ve got a doozy of a white lie for you today. Get a load of this commonly believed baloney. Myth: Vouchers will divert money from public schools. Fact: This
Utah Vouchers: Myths from the opposition
about 5 years ago - 10 comments
I’m starting a regular series of blog posts from now until the vote on Referendum 1 November 6th, and it is specifically designed to show you the lies that are being spread about Referendum 1 and Utah Vouchers. Myth No. 1 For each child that uses a voucher, the state will lose $3k from it’s
Utah Vouchers: Oreo cookie ad exposed?
about 5 years ago - 10 comments
Can anyone address whether this video is accurate or not? Connor was first. Sure, it’s more accurate than the original oreo ad. But this one (and most of them) leave out one crucial point: who does the money belong to? The person in this video, and those who believe likewise, feel that the taxpayer’s money
about 5 years ago
I personally am voting for Referendum 1. This issue is not about money. It’s about POWER, and who has the ability to decide what the majority of kids learn. I believe that parents have the ultimate responsibility and accountability for their child’s education. Does it have issues, sure like still taxing the people and giving the government control of your money. But at least it provides an opportunity for parents to take greater control and interest in their kids educational growth.
If you want to learn more about referendum 1, I recommend visiting utahchoice.com to get some more details and greater understanding about vouchers and how they give more power to parents.
about 5 years ago
My whole problem is that the State shouldn’t be taking taxpayer money to give to the private schools. If you choose to take your kids to a private school, you should pay for it yourself. Leave the tax money for the kids that are going to public schools. I personally could afford to take my child to a private school, and if I decided to do that, I would pay for it myself, without robbing the kids of the public schools out of some money they could use. It just seems really ridiculous to me.
about 5 years ago
An interesting thought…where does it end or will it….
“It just is not right to give people money to not use the public schools. It’s kind of like giving them some of their tax back–they pay taxes that go to support the public schools but if they are not going to use those schools then they should get some money back. What about those families who pay taxes that never used the public school system themselves nor do they have children in the schools. What about “vouchers” or tax breaks for them? If people taking their kids out of public schools should get monetary compensation, then those families who never put their kids there in the first place should also get monetary compensation.”
Personally as a single person and one who with no children….I’d like to be compensated as well…if we are going to go this far! Wait, I don’t use public medicine, housing, unemployment or tranportation…I think I better have the right to by pass the taxes used to fund those services to help pay for my medical, housing and car payments….right!….because I know what is best for me!
about 5 years ago
@ Wendy
It’s a nice thought, but why allow the state to rob people of money who don’t send their kids to public school? They have to foot the bill for other people’s kids plus their own because they want to send their kid to a different school. How is that fair?
about 5 years ago
@ Russell
Think about this… say a family of 10 children decide to send their kids to private school, how much money will they actually be “robbing” from the public?
If they were to send their 10 kids to public school then the $7,500 in taxpayer money per student would total $75,000 in public tax payer money being spent on their kids.
If they sent their 10 kids to a private Catholic school with the $3,000 voucher (not financially impossible like many would suggest) then they would be “stealing” $30,000 from tax payers to pay for their children’s education, am I right?
So, what you’re suggesting is that paying $75,000 for that family is more fair than $30,000 simply by virtue of one being a public school and one being a private school?
I think many people forget the fact that private schools and public schools all do the same thing. Why does everybody think that they are so different? I surmise that there is more difference between a public school in Murray and WVC than the difference between the average public school and the average private school. I pay taxes for the children in Utah to be educated. Why should I care if that education is at a public school or a private school as long as the kids receive an education?
about 5 years ago
@Nathan
I’m not sure I can tell whether we’re on the same page or not and weather you are for or against vouchers. Very confusing.
10 kids x $3k = $30k out. Those folks probably didn’t pay that much in property tax, but we don’t know that. There’s a hole there, but it’s no different than me (a guy with no kids in public school) paying money every year on my property taxes to put a kid through school because somebody has 10 kids in public schools. They pay property tax, but at 10 kids they have $75,000 a year worth of tax payer dollars their using. They’re taking more than they are putting in. So who’s doing the robbing now?
Are we talking about the same thing? Private schools and public schools do not do the same thing. Private schools fire bad teachers and public schools give them a pay raise each year.
about 5 years ago
The way I see it, this is a socio-economic issue. Just like members of my own community on the east bench are trying to remove themselves from a school district because that school district involves west side students, school vouchers will allow many families to further segregate themselves.
Utah schools need more help than pulling a couple hundred kids from the system. Utah schools need less school administration and more schools, more teachers and more funding. I have lived in many places but have never seen such a large number of districts. Are kids in Draper really that different from kids in Holladay? What do kids in Granite School District need or deserve that kids in Jordan School district don’t? Seems to me that consolidating school administrations would be of more benefit to everyone.
about 5 years ago
@Kris
The school districts were all formed around cities, and at one point not that long ago, the cities in the Salt Lake Valley did not all run together. I’m only 29, and I can remember when Draper was no-man’s land.
As for what schools need, what schools need is competition. More schools and more teachers and more funding do nothing. When teachers can get paid for great performance or get fired for bad performance then we’re going to have a better school system.
about 5 years ago
This “Parents Choice” is a bunch of crap! Utah parents need a wake-up call. GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR CHILDS EDUCATION! No matter where you educate your child! The voucher is not the answer, YOU ARE! You have to be involved to make a difference. This referendum propaganda that craps all over public schools by enticing parents with vouchers is disgusting. Public schools are dealing with raw material from every possible walks of life; low/high SES, physical, mental, and emotional and behavioral disorders along the “normal” kids. I believe most of the teachers in the public schools are trying their very best to make a positive difference in students’ lives and give them the best possible education. We need to put the voucher money towards educating parents on how to help their students through their academic career. Provide parents the tools they need in order for them to support their child’s education. Do you really think parents in Low SES situations that get vouchers and somehow are able to send their children to private schools are going to see a huge academic improvement? No. You know why? Because they’ll be too worried about paying for the rest of the tuition! They are working their guts out to pay for basic necessities as it is! Therefore, they are unable to meet their child’d needs academically, even though they truly want to help, they do not have the time. You cannot possibly think that sending kids to private schools is the cure. Parent involvement is the cure. Parents in a High SES have the time/money to help their kids academically. You are kidding yourself if you think the vouchers are really going to make a difference for those who do not make a lot of money. VOTE NO!!!
about 5 years ago
I think that moving to a socialist country (a social republic like those common in Europe) is the answer.
about 5 years ago
I have a few comments about the ads for this referendum. In the ads against ref 1, it states that it doesn’t benefit parents who can’t afford to pay the difference in the voucher and the cost to put their child in private schools. So what! If you could not afford to put your child in private school to begin with, all this does is give you a better ability to pay it if you want to.
As far as being FOR ref 1 I really don’t see it as much of a benefit to parents who typically CAN pay for Private School. If they make enough to pay for Private School, it is only a 500.00 voucher. 500.00 is better than nothing but I believe it should be the same amount across the board. If you have a higher income you are putting more money into education through taxes anyway.
Regardless what I would like to see is a benefit paid to parents who choose to homeschool to offset the money required for schooling supplies and time teaching our own children. Homeschooled children are held up to the same standards as other schooled children they are required to know the same information to receive a diploma. And in my own interaction with homeschooled children I find that they seem more knowledgable and well rounded than children schooled through public schools. This is only my observation different children excell in different environments.
about 5 years ago
By the way, if anyone is going to judge quality of education by the typos and spelling errors in my posts, I was public schooled:) I am kidding of course, I just realized the irony of my poor grammer in a post about education.
about 5 years ago
I agree with Brad!
about 5 years ago
The bottom line is referendum 1 will take money out of middle class education. I don’t have kids but would gladly shell out for the future of this country. This act is widening the gap between the rich and the poor. It’s horrible to think people are actually in favor of this. Where is the responsibility in this country? Not just to yourselves and your children, but to your community? Education is the cornerstone of this country, it made the powerhouse we are today. Now we are chipping away at our foundations because it’s more cost effective.
about 5 years ago
This might actually be a good thing.
Some people will send their kids so some whack schools run by idiots, and once the word gets out that will be the end of the experiment.
about 5 years ago
@ Tony.
I don’t see how takes money out of middle class education. This seems far fetched and made up. The money that would be used for vouchers comes from an education fund that knows no class. The money is divided out to public schools, and class isn’t taken into account.
So, I still see 100 reasons why people are supporting this.
about 5 years ago
I know actually no facts but I use factcheck.org to get the basic intent. That being said, I never got that far this time for one simple fact. George Soros. You know, the guy who took out the whole page add in the NY Times for “General Betrayus”. Ya, moveon.org, Hilary Clinton etc.
All I know is, if he wants it and supports it, I should be on the other side. Sedition has never been so blatant and rampant and was never tolerated before.
about 5 years ago
@ Wendy
If you are going to choose to send your kid to private school pay for it yourself. Why should I pay for your kid to go to school? Isn’t that the exact argument you are making against vouchers?
I don’t have any kids in school yet I have to pay on the two properties that I own.
about 5 years ago
@ Kris
When better results are tied to better funding in public education I think the it will lead to more funding. But until there is a correlation (which there isn’t) you won’t see any additional funding.
about 5 years ago
Doesn’t Ref 1 actually increase funding for schools? Reading the bill, it appears that the vouchers leave some of the money in the school. Mean while, the family that puts the kid(s) into private school pays even more money for education. So the total amount of money for education in public + private goes up. Of course, those already paying for private will get some reduction from the vouchers decreasing the total spending from present. I don’t know numbers but if Ref 1 increases the number of kids in private schools ir appears that total money put into education (taxes + personal spending) will increase, not decrese.
I would think teachers would eventually see an increase in pay. As private schools grow they will need to hire more, more hiring means more demand means more pay also with competition between schools. Universities pay teachers very well (have brother-in-law that teachers at BYU).
I am voting for it. I want to see some shake up and try something new. If you look at colleges where they do compete you see great schools (the US has 38 of the top 50 colleges in the world), large class sizes at times, and both students and parents involved in finding the right school for them. I want to see this model move down to lower grades.
The arguments that private schools will basically be crap (no accountability, no teacher certificate, what not) is also complete BS. Parents who put their kids in private schools are very involved with the process and will be the judge of what is good. Do people really think a parent will pay extra money to put their kid in a crappy private school? If they don’t care they won’t be paying extra money to do it, status quo will be just fine for such. Private schools that are not good will die, just like all bad businesses. I don’t really see any downside to Ref 1. I have read all the against arguments in the bill and online and see little more than emotional scare tatics and hand waving arguments.
about 5 years ago
Russell,
Is there anywhere I can read in whole what the Referendum is stating? It seems all I am finding is interpretations of what the referendum is saying.
about 5 years ago
Russ -
I couldn’t agree more. Thank you.
about 5 years ago
I just read the bill in its entirety and it disgusts me. Nowhere in the bill is any consideration given to parents who choose to homeschool. Do these parents not also help to reduce class size? It looks like referendum 1 supports “choice” in education only so long as big government first approves of your choice. Stop this bill at all costs.
about 5 years ago
Wendy stated that her problem with vouchers is “that the State shouldn’t be taking taxpayer money to give to the private schools.” I’d just like to point out that our national and state governments reward billions upon billions of dollars every year to private corporations and groups in the form of farm subsidies, auto industry subsidies, special tax cuts, protective tariffs, and other incentives in order to help economic growth. If vouchers really do help Utah education, then “taking taxpayer money to give to the private schools” isn’t a problem at all.